Happy New Year....starting with a question!
Sorry Everyone! I have been so busy with over-time for the past few weeks that I haven't really had time for the computer at all. I hope that in this New Year of 2008 that I can spend a little more time on the sight. Gotta work the over-time though....no money means no place to live, let alone internet services. :) Anyhow, I've got a question..... ... about the origin of Shou Shu. Shifu Sefraph used to tell me that Shou Shu, until you reached black, was more of a principle art. He said that after black it became pure beast forms and that the pure beast had their own lineage and origins. He told me that Mongoose was all but extinct...that his Da Shifu had basically brought it back from the brink of non-existence and that the Da Shifu was the true lineage of modern Shou Shu. How accurate is that? Brad told me that the Da Shifu all but created the Shou Shu he knew. If thats so, does the origin of the modern Shou Shu belong to the Da Shifu? Just thinking about that is really amazing, a person in this day and age who put Shou Shu back together again....and basically created Mongoose. Pardon my words...but that makes for one hell of a man to be able to do that! -Jack
Comments
I have some thoughts
I have (In the past) had several conversations with SSW about Shou Shu. I have also had conversations with other teachers about Shou Shu. I say that to say this; Shou Shu is what you make of it. I think Da Shifu put it best when he said there is no my way your way etc. Like SSW said, it is principles. Are there techniques? Yes. Are there movements that are right and movements that are wrong? But the PRINCIPLE is the same. So what does all that mean? One of my teachers put it this way "You will learn this moves, you will gain that rank, and years from now you'll teach them and suddenly go, oh, thats what he meant, then you'll apply it to your self" I believe SSW mentioned something about Da Shifu saying something similar. I also heard Shou Shu described as "Individual, you have to learn it, study it, know it, OWN it, then you will be able to teach it" So in all of that, what am I saying? The techniques we have learned were designed to teach us PRINCIPLES, I do not move the way that SSW does, nor do I move the way my dad moves, so I have to make "Rising Knee" work for my body and my mechanics. Yes it should look a certain way, yes it should be done and taught a certain way, but it also has to fit your body.
I realize that doesn't speak to the question about the mongoose and so forth, what it does speak to is the core of what we all do. We should all remember, to do a given move, your entire body must be in the right position, the right alignment, the right extention. However that statment is all encompassing and and individually exclusive...
Hope that made sense, I know this discussion is old.
Da Shifu
I have only met Da Shifu a hand ful of times. But everytime is a memory that would be impossible to forget. I remember after a test ( my high blue i think it was a long time ago) he was talking to the people that had just tested about a priciple of Shou Shu while he was squaring off and handling a bear black belt. ( Shifu Shockley) I don't remember the principle he was speaking of. However i will never forget how easily he handled the black belt. It was like a cat playing with the mouse before he eats it. The whole while Da Shifu appeared to be looking at us students. Amazing Mr. Miller
matthew miller
HAHAHA
I can picture that. That's really funny knowing that Da' Shifu enjoyed hitting Shifu Shockley.
I also remember your blue belt test. You almost broke the mirror.
I remember very vividly a lesson from Da' Shifu very late in his life. It was a crane lesson. It's a technique where the wings kinda spin the body like your in a big tumbler. He got ahold of me with those wings and threw me around like nothing. At the time he weighed 125 and I weighed 225 yet my body mass had no effect on him. It was a really strange feeling. He didn't hurt me but I really felt as if I got stuck inside of some big steel threshing machine. His arms felt like steel so much that Ithought they even felt cold and hard like steel.
Now at the time I did not understand that the crane worked out of the steel element and I know I hadn't heard that yet. So I know it wasn't my own mind creating the feeling of steel. Really freaky. To this day when I practice or teach crane I still feel that and it really gives me a much greater understanding of crane.
SSW
Principle
Hi Jack,
Great questions. I'll try to help.
... about the origin of Shou Shu. Shifu Sefraph used to tell me that Shou Shu, until you reached black, was more of a principle art.
I'd say its a principle art all the way. Originally all of the material was kempo based. The kempo techniques were used to teach the principles of Shou' Shu'. This is one of the reasons there are people out there bashing the art. They recognize the kempo technique but don't recognize that the motion is completely different. As time went on the majority of the kempo techniques were replaced with Shou' Shu' techniques. There are still quite a number of them left though.
I've learned a whole bunch of the beast material and it's still principle based. As a matter of fact the actual crane form is very short and would appear simplistic to the casual observer. However for someone who knows what they are looking at it is highly sophisticated. The Mantis has no form, it is purely principle. Da' Shifu used to complain that black belts of that level should realize that they don't need a form for that material but only need to understand the beast.
He said that after black it became pure beast forms and that the pure beast had their own lineage and origins.
Are you saying they have separate origins. I really have no idea on that one. I wish I knew.
He told me that Mongoose was all but extinct...that his Da Shifu had basically brought it back from the brink of non-existence
This is possible. He said he spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. Oversees he would pay $.25 to see a mongoose and cobra fight. Not long before he passed away he was teaching me mongoose and he stopped and said "So that's what they meant". He had realized something about the mongoose. There were some principles that he pounded into my head about the mongoose that I have only run into one other black belt that knew them. So as far as what was really going on there, whether it was him growing in the mongoose over time (as we do) or him reviving it it's hard to say. He did say that he felt his teachers could explain it but not do it. I can say that if your body isn't ready for it you can't do it. It's pretty hard stuff. But its a total blast.
and that the Da Shifu was the true lineage of modern Shou Shu. How accurate is that?
I guess that's dependent on what you mean. He said there were others who tested for Da' Shifu with him. The word lineage is a funny thing, something that should be applied to genetics but not knowledge. He said "There is no my way nor your way, there is just the Shou' Shu' way" Basically either you had it right or you didn't.
Think about this statement:
Lineage destroys arts
Brad told me that the Da Shifu all but created the Shou Shu he knew.
He definetely added to the development in a wonderful way. But he also said that was his role. The thinking is that a grand master should take the art further but not until he had been a grand master for many many years.
If thats so, does the origin of the modern Shou Shu belong to the Da Shifu?
Knowledge belongs to humanity. But we should honor him for his commitment and contributions to that body of knowledge.
Just thinking about that is really amazing, a person in this day and age who put Shou Shu back together again....and basically created Mongoose. Pardon my words...but that makes for one hell of a man to be able to do that!
I can guarantee you, he was one hell of a man.
I'd love for someone else to chime in on these thoughts.
SSW