Northern vs. Southern, the history of...
Hello All...
Having lived outside of central California since '88 I have been learning bits and pieces of how the Shou Shu family has become somewhat devided. I am interested in learning more about what schools exist today and what leadership (Da Shifus) oversee the particular schools etc... My mind is still set back a couple of decades ago when there were only 3 Da Shifus so it is hard to get a grip around what the organization looks like today.
Thanks!
~pat
Comments
Sylistic Differences?
Hi everyone,
I am trying to understand the stylistic differences between the Northern and Southern groups. From what I am reading, it sounds like the differences are significant. From what I can remember when I was training with Shun Shifu Jones in Merced during the late eighties... The Southern group was eliminating a lot of the circular motions in favor of more straight-line striking. This was allowing their students to progress to black belt more quickly. Is that an accurate assessment? What other differences are there?
Also, is anyone aware of any Northen Shou Shu practicioners in the Los Angeles area? I live in San Dimas on the outskirts of LA County and it has been many years since I trained with anyone. My last rank achieved was 1st brown.
Many thanks Shun Shifu Weaver for allowing me access to this site. I am greatly honored that you welcomed me in to read and post here.
ss jones
I also trained ss dennis jones , he was a good guy and fun to teach. He loved the art and his kwondo lol He tried to combine the north and southedn ideas as best as he could, but he finally had enough of the intimation form jr and left. Many of the Merced students came to Modesto to train form me till I finally left also. I still train shifu herron as he lives near me.
I probably would remember you from camp :)
The Merced School
Wow it has been years. I also trained in that school under Shun shifu Jones. I made it to high blue. I have just recently moved back to Merced and found the nearest school to be in Atwater. I would like to know if Dashifu Clark still teaches. I remember SS Jones talking highly of you. I would be interested in taking lessons again please let me know.
Larry Peeples
Head on over to Valley Springs
Hi Larry,
You're more than welcome here in Valley Springs. I'm not sure how long the drive is. However, if you are disciplined enough to practice at home, commuting here once a week would be good.
Shifu Liz
Shifu Liz Weaver
The Drive
I am so drivin to have that REAL Shou Shu that the drive would be worth it. I am working on taking my Physical Therapy state boards at the moment, but when I am finished I WILL be there to train. Thanks so much Shifu Liz, I will see you soon.
L. Peoples
yea i remember you as a kid in merced school lol
I am not in california anymore
Thanks Dashifu
I 'm glad you remembered me. I want to start taking Shou Shu again. Do you have any suggestions. Do you know anything about the Atwater school? Or would Sanora be in my best interest? Thanks Larry Peeples
I think you tested me for brown belt
Da Shifu Clark,
Please forgive me if I have mixed up your name with someone else, but if I remember correctly... I believe you tested me (In the Modesto studio) for my brown belt back around 1990. I think you were 5th degree at that time. You also did some training of one of my groups at camp, as I am sure you have for hundreds (thousands?) of people :-). I do not remember Shifu Herron. From Merced, I remember Shifu Michelle, Shifu Sanchez (I think that was his name), Shifu Williams (I think that was the name of the Shifu who was a vietnam vet). I remember when I was an orange belt, a few of the higher ranking students spent a few nights walking the main street of merced hoping someone would start a fight with them (I was not one of them, by the way). One night Shun Shifu Jones went out with them to keep an eye on them, and he ended up getting attacked by a street gang. Boy, did they get a surprise! Shun Shifu Jones told that tale in a very entertaining way, with the same smile and upbeat attitude that he always seemed to have :-)
Much respect and thanks to you for the fantastic training!
Salute!
Greg Lucia
i did
yea that was me, Herron came later, not williams its Mc Daniel , Shifu Way, Michelle yea with an attitude lol,
sanchez ? maybe Hernandez with 3 fingers from nam you mean
yea i herd the fight story from him too lol
nice to hear from you
Differences
Hello Mr. Lucia,
To be able to give you an accurate answer I would have to know both styles or at least have some exposure to "southern". Which I don't.
I did for the seven months after Da' Shifu's passing and not to be disrespectful in any way but that was enough for me. What I was getting was kung fooey from other styles. I know some people find this stuff cool. There was a lot of posing and a lot of charisma. Also things that seemed very powerful but (especially to the untrained) didn't have the magigal power that Da' Shifu taught.
I have a way (ok yes it's borrowed) of explaining "Northern" Shou' Shu'.
"You are not taught Shou' Shu' you are led on a discovery of it"
Shou' Shu' is based on principle. Principle cannot be changed.
Take one of Newton's laws and tell people you've found a better way. Newton's law's will still prevail. You can test it by jumping off a cliff and the results will always be the same. Shou' shu' is like that. It is possible to have deeper understandings of the laws but impossible to replace them.
Da' Shifu said it this way.
"There is no my way. There is no Your Way. There is only the Shou' Shu' way."
Those words were very powerful coming from him.
So there can be no Southern or Northern. There is only Shou' Shu' and not Shou' Shu'. Does it follow principle or not follow principle
SSW
P.S. However remember that what confuses this sometimes is that there are seven sets of principles and that can give different flavors of Shou' Shu'. But they all remain within the overall principle.
Thanks
Thank you Shun Shifu Weaver. Your words and the words of Da' Shifu make a lot of sense to me.
So I guess there are no known Shou' Shu' practicioners available for training in the Los Angeles area?
Salute!
Greg.
LA
I'm not sure if there are any there. Off the top of my head I can't think of any but I know someone else asked me about that area.
One of the purposes of this site is to reconnect SS people not only virtually but in real life. I've got some work to do on the site but when I get time I'll put up a geographical locator so everyone can easily find each other.
The whole point of this is to get people working out together and preserving the art. I figure if we all work together to popularize it we can get "cells" working out all over the world.
That's my dream anyway.
The whole point of what we do with this site and the International Shou' Shu' Association is to try to carry out something that Da' Shifu really wanted.
Da' shifu said on many occassions "I didn't teach any one person everything I know, but I did teach everything I know"
It was a statement he made a lot of emphasis on (at least to me but I do remember several occasions when he said it to groups of black belts).
So I translate that as :You guys better all get along, have fun together, and work out together.
He did teach all the beast material to one person and it's my belief that it's ONLY one person that has all that knowledge and we are quite privileged to have that person here on our site interacting with us.
But still we must work together to preserve this great art. I believe that is the only way it will persist.
It's kind of like Battlestar Galactica
Hi Shifu Pat,
I'm a product of the 80's so I can equate anything to an 80's movie, show or song...
In answer to "what does Shou' Shu' look like today?" here it is...
"Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest. A shining planet, known as Earth"
When we make our movie it'll read:
"Fleeing from the junior tyranny, the last school, Sheng Chi, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest. A shining planet, known as Shou' Shu' "
Shifu Liz
Shifu Liz Weaver
haha break out the leg warmers!
I loved that series! I was in high school in the early 80's so I can certainly relate. ;-)
~shifupat
Haami Ruh
~shifupat
South
Well Shifu Liz nailed what the North looks like. The south would be something like:
"Boy it sure is a glorious day Mr. Jones. We are truly blessed.
The
followersstudents are looking good. And why yes, a nice big tall glass of kool aid does sound refreshing"********
Ok Ok I'll stop now. But I had to have some fun
The North and the South
Hi Shifu Pat,
It might be a while until you get a response on this one. It's going to be as long as the mini series of the same name from the 80's. Also I think you'll get the same basic story just from a few different perspectives.
Besides Da' Shifu Al Moore SR. who were the other two you remember?
Shifu Liz
Shifu Liz Weaver
hi there Shifu Liz!
At the time I was studying the only 7th degree Shou Shu black belts I was aware of were Da Shifu and Ralph Moore and Al Moore Jr. I really only recall Al Sr. going by the title Da Shifu at the time. It was long ago. I certainly do not want to trouble anyone with that deep of a question, I was thinking perhaps the exercise had already been done in the past and 'cut and paste' may be possible. No worries. I am just glad I have reconnected with some great folks!
Have a wonderful week!
~shifupat
Haami Ruh
~shifupat