Shou Shu-Shoalin connection

So By the way. I WAS being a bit secretive on this thread in the past. But no reason to be now.

Liz and I did train with a Shaolin priest and his students.
It was just for a weekend. We were doing our research first hand.
I can tell you a few things for certain.

1) Shou Shu is not Shaolin. No similarities whatsoever as far as motion goes. Little stuff hear and there but overall very different.
2) The Shaolin Chuan Fa we learned is not like what you see at the Wu Shu tournaments. Kind of looks like it but not at all applied like it.
3) It is an application art just like ours. Its an interesting and fun art.
4) No I don't plan on continuing in it in anyway. Mastering Shou' Shu' is enough of a mission for me.

So if anyones interested in finding out more on Shaolin Tor is the guy (he's a member here, check the guest list) He's amazing in his knowledge of Shaolin.

I have trained in China 1994, under a grand master in plum flower mantis. Well it is better then what i see in the states BUT it sucks compared to what Da Shifu taught me!
I was offered to train in Shaolin temple but said no thanks, the Shaolin I saw in China and else were was crap unless you are into gymnastics or something.
whu shu is the same, gymnastics flimsy weapons used wrong and we did ask them why they did what we saw lol unbelievable answers.

the Europeans had their ma mostly sword stuff and it was as good or better then asian but info was some what lost. There are peeps who are trying to bring it back through training in old books found in Europe. Netflix has a nice doc on it called reclaiming the sword.

Thanks for the plug SSW. LOL The Shaolin army was actually defeated on several occasions. the one in particular incident I beleive was in 1641 a rebel Manchurian leader Le Zicheng faught a Ming army fortified with Shaolin and wiped them out. Le Zicheng then procedes to sack the temple as well and burned it down. He drove out or killed any remaining Shaolin. The temple lay abandoned for decades after. 1644 Manchurian army lays seige to China's capital and destroys the Ming entering into China's last dynasty the Qing. Qing ruled until 1912. What is also interesting here is that Shaolins abbot Yongyu left in 1664 and a successor was not named until 1999. Hope thats not to much useless knowledge. Mr Miller

matthew miller

Actually yes, I do know a bit about this. I did my research.

First off here's what I know from Da' Shifu.
Yes it is true Da' Shifu had a disdain for Shaolin. Considering what that disdain was based upon I suspect it was something passed down from his teachers.

Da' Shifu said they were dishonorable.They would hire out to anyone as mercenaries. They'd fight for whoever had the most money to pay. Not only was this dishonorable in itself but it strongly went against their own philosophy. Shaolin Chuan Fa is primarily a spiritual teaching and secondarily a martial art. They train hard in MA but it is still secondary to their intent.

So the subject matter that Da' Shifu talked about was a long time ago. I'm no history buff but prior to the 1900's I think. This is why I think it was a passed down disdain. He also talked about "us" whipping them in some war. "We" were outnumbered immensely but still came out the victors. I really do not know what war he was talking about but there was a great deal of emotion in the story. Maybe Mr. Miller could figure out what part of history he may have been refering to. Mr. Miller is a bit of a warrior history buff.

Now I do know this about the Shaolins. There are a lot of them. There were Shaolin temples all over. AND the Shaolins that hired out as mercenaries were a small section of the Shaolins. AND they were thrown out of the sect. One of these guys is often reffered to as White Eyebrow. Look him up. Those two groups still to this day argue whether or not they ever had any association with one another. There are a lot of illogical statements made about this especially from the white eyebrow end of things.

So the Shaolins that Da' Shifu spoke of probably was in reference to this group. The other Shaolins code forbid them from participating in political wars.

Now think about this.

In 1949 (and this was not the first time it happened) the then turning communist government outlawed martial arts. The red purge. Martial artists either had to flee the country, give up their martial arts, or somehow hide it.

So some fled. Some hid it (Famous quote from Da' Shifu when referring to these guys "You ever hide something and then forget where you put it")

Those that hid it ruined their martial arts. The next generation who had learned it as a hidden art just couldn't figure it out. And frankly without prior knowledge I doubt I could either.

So somewhere in all this we ended up with Shou' Shu'. No matter where it was (doesn't matter much) it was preserved among a small group of people. Kept pure, and then down the line to us.

It had to be underground and hidden to remain pure like it did. It had to fall into the hands of a rough and tumble street fighter to remain like it did. We are lucky.

Oh and by the way. Da' Shifu gave me a list of the cities that the Shou' Shu' masters fled to. And yes I'll share if anyone's interested.

So knowing all this does anyone think that the Shaolins remained in China happilly practicing their martial arts during the reign of communism. What happened to them? Where did they go?

Are the guys out there on the forums you read really Shaolin descendents?

OMG I saw a commercial for some dance contest featuring the world's best dancers. and guess who was there. Yep, the Shaolins. Flaunting their stuff. some 37th or whatever generation Shaolin master showing off.

Oh but wait just a minute. Didn't I say Shaolin was primarily a spiritual practice.

HHHHmmmmm something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Shaolin Chuan Fa is very much the same as or at least very similar to Zen Buddhism. I doubt your going to see a Zen master Showing off.

The truth be told. The Chinese government figured out somewhere that the Shaolin temple were bringing in more tourist trade than the great wall. So guess what. They needed Shaolins. And how about getting some nice flashy ones. Yeah that's it. Crowd pleasers. Money money money.

As a matter of fact i got an email from some of these guys just the other day. It said that I could go train with them for $5400 or something like that. Didn't matter my skill level. Just as long as I promised not to laugh at the other students. Seriously, I'm not kidding. That's what it said.

So the state of Shaolin martial arts out there might not be what it appears to be.

BUT. There might just be some shaolins out there that are pure in their art. Maybe just like us they practiced in small groups. didn't get to public. Kept things quiet and pure. That's possible right?